Proof of Life After Death?

Women Speaking 1 Corinthians 14

 The Church has backed away from fundamentalists who tell women to be silent in the Church but many are still confused about the passage in 1 Corinthians that seems to say women should be silent in  church...nay fellow believers, when you break down the passage, Paul is actually castigating men who were trying to enforce rabbinical teachings when in Christ we are all equal. Of course a marriage has a beautiful flow and set up but parents don't demand children shut up and never teach their parents. Hold on to your hats ya'll as your mind is blown and this controversial passage finally makes sense

Paul recognized women are prophets earlier in his letter to the Corinthians (1 Cor 11:4-5, 16).  The New Testament cites women prophets elsewhere, too. (e.g., Acts 2:15-21; Acts 21:8-9; Luke 2:36-38).

Having this recognition, Paul said, in his letter to everyone in the church at Corinth (1 Cor 1:2):

• “I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. …”  (1 Cor 14:5) (all NIV)

• When the “whole church” comes together, it is great “if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying.”  (14:23-25)

• “What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each—“every one” (KJV)—of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. …”  (14:26)

• “Two or three prophets should speak, ….”  (14:29) (i.e., of all women and men who are prophets)

• “For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.”  (14:31)

Thus, Paul is telling “every one,” the “whole church,” “brothers and sisters,” “all”—women and men—to speak out “when you come together,” e.g., in the church.

Notice at the end of the passage that Paul says “my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy ….” (v.39).”

Let’s start with who the letter was written to and why
Chloe of Corinth

One woman who may have ministered in the church at Corinth was Chloe. In the opening chapter of 1 Corinthians, Paul writes that he had received a report from some people who had come from Chloe (1 Cor. 1:11).[25] These people somehow belonged to Chloe. They were most likely members of her household and may also have been members of a church that met in her home.[26]

Chloe may have sent these people to Paul. Sending a delegation is clearly something only a person functioning as a leader can do. Considering the purpose of the delegation, and assuming Chloe is a Jesus’ follower, it seems she was a church leader.[27] Perhaps Chloe’s people did not just bring a verbal report to Paul about the problems in the Corinthian church, perhaps they had also brought the letter that Paul responds to in 1 Corinthians.[28] Could Chloe, as a concerned church leader in Corinth, have written this letter?

In New Testament times, most Christian congregations met in homes, and some house churches were hosted, cared for, and led by women. Nympha was the host of a house church (Col. 4:15), and so was Priscilla, with her husband Aquila (1 Cor. 16:19).[29] Phoebe was a minister (diakonos) in the church at Cenchrea, a port of Corinth (Rom. 16:1 NIV). As patron (prostatis), she may have hosted meetings in her home (Rom. 16:2). It is highly unlikely Paul restricted prominent Christian women from speaking in their own homes, especially as the New Testament provides ample evidence that he valued the ministry of his female colleagues and encouraged participation in ministry as long as it was done in an orderly and edifying manner (1 Cor. 14:26; Col. 3:16).

1 Corinthians 1:11 

I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you

There are several different interpretations of 1 Corinthians 14 

I’d like to bring up two that are little spoken about
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is a Quotation
So in his theological explanations, Paul quotes what the Corinthians might have said were they in the same room having a conversation with him, and then responds to those imagined interjections, whether by agreeing, correcting, or simply nuancing what they have said. Examples include 1 Corinthians 6:12-13, 8:1, and 10:23. 

I believe that’s what he’s doing here in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. And on that basis, here’s how I think 1 Corinthians 14:31-40 should be rendered. 

For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

“The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”

Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But all things should be done decently and in order.

When punctuated this way, it seems that Paul isn’t telling the women to be silent but actually rebuking the men who are disallowing them from speaking in tongues during worship gatherings. 

Paul tells the Corinthians that all can prophesy one by one, and they naturally object, “Even the women? Shouldn’t they just be silent and ask their husbands about it when they get home?” To which Paul responds, “Did the word of God come only to men?” And he goes on to reiterate that no one should be forbidden from speaking in tongues. It should just always be done in an orderly manner, as he outlined earlier in the text. 

Not Everything Is As It Seems

In this interpretation, Paul isn’t silencing the women. He’s actually giving them a voice. In short, I believe we have been interpreting this passage the exact opposite of what it actually says. 

But the puzzle pieces fit, particularly when we consider that Paul respected and worked alongside women with authority such as Chloe and Lydia, and he even commended his letter to the Romans to be delivered and read by Phoebe. It also fits Paul’s words in this very same letter about the manner in which women should pray and prophesy in mixed gender gatherings. It seems fairly obvious. 

https://kainosproject.com/2022/02/15/1-corinthians-1434-35/

Most of the scholars mentioned so far have tried to determine the meaning of 14:34-35 by exploring the broader social context of the first-century Corinthian church, but others have focussed solely on the text of 14:34-35 in trying to determine how to interpret and apply these verses.

First Corinthians was written in response to a verbal report from Chloe’s people (1 Cor. 1:11) and in response to a letter Paul had received from the Corinthians asking his advice (1 Cor. 7:1).[18] At times it is evident in his letter that Paul is quoting from the Corinthian’s letter as he deals with its contents. Some of these quotations include, “It is not good for a man to touch a woman” (1 Cor. 7:1), “We all possess knowledge” (1 Cor. 8:1), “There is no resurrection” and “Christ has not been raised” (1 Cor. 15:12, 14). Some scholars believe 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 may also be a quotation. This would account for the way it does not seem to fit with what Paul is saying in the surrounding verses.

1 Corinthians 1:10ff tells us that there were competing factions in the Corinthian church (cf. 1 Cor. 11:18-19). It is possible one of these factions was trying to silence women in church meetings. This would have been a real concern for women like Chloe. Perhaps Paul quotes the faction’s injunction for women to be silent in 14:34-35, but then reprimands the faction, which includes men, with, “What!” Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only ones it has reached?” (cf. 1 Cor. 14:36 KJV and 1 Cor. 14:36 NRSV).[19] The Greek adjective monous, which occurs in verse 36 and is translated as “only ones” in the NRSV, is grammatically masculine. According to Greek grammar, this adjective cannot refer only to women. The masculine gender of “only ones” in verse 36 does not seem to follow logically after 14:34-35 and its instructions to women unless verse 36 is a reprimand to a group of men that wants to silence women.

The view that 14:34-35 is Paul quoting the Corinthians is one of the few that offers a plausible explanation for the change of tone which verses 34-35 bring into the text, as well as the subsequent change of topic, tone, and gender in verse 36. If this explanation is the correct one, then Paul is not silencing women in 14:34-35. Rather, Paul quotes and then rebukes the people who are trying to silence the women

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is an Interpolation

As noted, verses 34-35 sit uncomfortably within 1 Corinthians 14, both grammatically and hermeneutically. In fact, if you skip over verses 33b-35, and go straight from verse 33a to verse 36, the passage flows and makes good sense. Furthermore, because of the existence of textual variations involving verses 34-35 in several early manuscripts of 1 Corinthians, some scholars, notably Gordon D. Fee and Philip B. Payne, suggest verses 34-35 may have been inserted into the text of Paul’s letter by an unknown scribe at a very early date.[20]

In a few early (mostly Western) texts of 1 Corinthians 14, verses 34-35 are located after verse 40 (e.g., Codex Claromontanus, Codex Augiensis, Codex Boernerianus, Codex Regis, and some Latin manuscripts). Metzger (1994:499) offers an explanation for the different location of these verses: “Such scribal alterations represent attempts to find a more appropriate location in the context for Paul’s directive concerning women.”

The sixth-century Codex Fuldensis is especially ambiguous in its treatment of verses 34-35.

The Latin text of 1 Corinthians 14 runs onward throughout the chapter to ver. 40. [But] following ver. 33 is a scribal siglum that directs the reader to a note standing in the margin of the page. This note provides the text of verses 36 through 40. [But omits verses 34-35.] Does the scribe, without actually deleting verses 34-35 from the [main] text, intend the liturgist to omit them when reading the lesson? (Metzger 1994:499) [My square brackets added for clarity.]

These textual variations, plus others,[21] suggest verses 34-35 may not be original. If 14:34-35 is a non-Pauline interpolation, then the scriptural authority of this verse is dubious and its use to silence women is questionable.

“Women are to subject themselves, just as ‘the law’ also says.”

Apart from the uncertainty as to what sort of speech is being prohibited, another significant problem with understanding the intent of 14:34-35 is knowing what is meant by “the law” (ho nomos) mentioned in verse 34. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible, often referred to in the New Testament as “the Law” (ho nomos), does it command or instruct women to be silent or to be in submission. Yet Chrysostom, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther and many other theologians took nomos in 14:34-35 to refer to the Old Testament and, specifically, to Genesis 3:16. (Krizo 2009:33)

Grudem, however, is careful to distance himself from linking the complementarian concept of male authority with Genesis 3:16 and the Fall. Grudem claims that “the Law” probably refers to the Old Testament in general and Genesis 2 in particular “where Adam is the ‘firstborn.’” (Grudem 1988:223) Hierarchical complementarians use the created order of Adam first, Eve second, to support their view that God has ordained men to have authority over women. [I have written about “the Created Order” here.]

Other theologians suggest Paul is referring to a Rabbinic Law. Still others suggest Paul is referring to a Roman Law. There were many Roman laws that governed various religious observances in the Roman world. Richard and Catherine Kroeger (1978:9) believe Paul is referring to laws passed by the Roman Senate that were designed to curb women from engaging in wild, orgiastic Bacchanal worship. The Kroegers believe the Christian women in Corinth may have imitated Bacchanalian worship styles in church meetings, and so Paul instructs them in 14:34-35 to be silent, control themselves, and stop acting disgracefully.[21] However, Grudem (1988:223) notes, “in the 119 occurrences of the word ‘law’ (nomos) in Paul’s letters it never unambiguously refers to either Rabbinic law or Roman Law.” Cynthia Long Westfall (2016:237, fn85), on the other hand, states that nomos is used here with “its most common meaning ‘rule, principle, norm.'” According to this understanding, talkative women were to be quiet and behave according to the cultural norms of the day.

As already noted, the Hebrew Bible contains no instructions, or even encouragements, for women to be silent or submissive.[23] Jim Reiher (2006:83), who takes 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 as a quotation from the Corinthians suggests that since the Greek Christians in Corinth would not have known the Jewish law as well as the Jewish Christians, it is possible the Corinthians may have simply been mistaken on this issue of “the Law.” Or perhaps the people who were trying to silence women in the Corinthian church mentioned “the Law” speciously to support their view.

The ambiguous reference to “the law” is a hindrance to understanding the real meaning of 14:34-35. The verb “be subject” (or “be submissive”) is less ambiguous.[24] Nevertheless, some people assume the submission called for in verse 34 is the submission of wives to husbands. Some apply it even more widely and believe Paul was directing women, as a group, to be submissive to men, not just to husbands. Importantly, however, the same verb is also used two verses earlier, in verse 32, where it says, “The spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets.” The Kroegers (1978), and others, believe Paul is using the word “subject” to mean “control,” and that Paul is instructing the prophets to control their spiritual gift of prophecy and not get carried away like some pagan prophets. The NIV conveys this meaning in its translation of verse 32: “The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of the prophets.” (My italics.) Similarly, the use of the word “subject/submit” in verse 34 may be an injunction to the women to exercise control, restraint, in the manner in which they speak and not get carried away.

https://margmowczko.com/interpretations-applications-1-cor-14_34-35/

Funny thing, the passage fundamentalists quote to tell women to be silent in the church, actually says the exact opposite when you break it down in the Greek. There is a little bitty problem with the 1 Cor passage that should be our tell "women should be silent in the church JUST AS THE LAW SAYS," Wait, what? First off does the law say that anywhere? No, no where. It is rabbinical and talmudic teaching.

When does Paul ever tell people to follow the law, must less harsh talmudic rabbidical interpretations? No where. In the beginning of 1 Cor Paul quotes words back to them "I follow Paul, I follow Apollos, I follow Cephas..." Cephas is Peter and there was a huge dissconnect between those who kept to the law and rabbical teachings and those who did not. Peter was seen as the head of the mostly Jewish believers in Jerusalem and we know he kept so close to the law he was rebuked by Paul. It was a lengthy transition. And so as the Gospel spread out from those who kept to rabbical teachings into a Gentile world, Paul had to correct their thinking. 

 Paul tends to quote others and then use the  Greek Disjunctive Particle, ἢ. Which "separates opposites which are mutually exclusive.” Lidell and Scott, in their lexicon, state that it is an exclamation expressing disapproval.

2x in the 1 Cor passage Twice  Paul uses this disapproving, mutually exclusive particle. It carries the idea of a “not” used by the youth of our day. “Hey, you’re an excellent hockey player, man … NOT!”

While many translations ignore particle completely, the King James Version translates it, “What?” or sometimes, “Never!”

Examples: 

Preposterous!” That accurately captures the idea. Paul uses this throughout his writings, but we will constrain ourselves just to 1 Corinthians, since that is home to our target passage. When you see this particle in action, I believe it will shed bright, new light on our target passage.

1 Corinthians 6:1-2, “Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? Preposterous! Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?“

1 Corinthians 6:8-9, “On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. Preposterous! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?“

1 Corinthians 6:15-16a, “Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! Preposterous! Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her?“

1 Corinthians 6:18b-20a, “Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Preposterous! Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?“

1 Corinthians 14:33b-38

“As in all the churches of the saints, the women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.” Preposterous! Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Preposterous! Has it come to you only? If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Now it gets better and solidifies the fact Paul is literally telling them that forbiding women to teach is absurd...

He raises the question, “Did the Word of God originate with you folks?” That too is asinine! “Perhaps you’re the only ones it has reached and the rest of us are in the dark.”

Paul is using a powerful rhetorical device, following a pattern he has used throughout the Corinthian letter. He states the Corinthian position, expresses disapproval with the disjunctive particle, and then moves forward, teaching an accurate view or understanding. In a sense, it is like the modern-day practice of shaming.

At the end of this section, Paul asserts his apostolicity, saying he is the one with a word from the Lord, not the Cephite disciples, and refusal to hear Paul on this puts the Corinthians in danger of not being “recognized.”

Paul had addressed the women as "they" and now addresses the men with the masuline form of  "you"

In verse 36, Paul asks, “Was it from you (plural) that the word of God first went forth? Preposterous! Has it come to you (plural) only?“

the gender is determined by the modifier, “only” (μόνους). Monous is masculine, and from that, we determine that you (ὑμᾶς) is also masculine. Thus, in English, we might say what Paul said in this way, “Was it from you men that the word of God first went forth? That’s preposterous! Has it come to you men only?”

according to Paul, if it is only the men’s voices that are to be heard in public, we have a real problem with verse 31 in this same chapter, where it says all (παντες) may prophesy in turn, not just the guys. Remember Joel’s prophecy that God will pour out his Spirit on “all flesh,” men and women, your sons and daughters, and that your sons and daughters will prophesy. We saw it with the four daughters of Philip, and we saw it with the women of Corinth in Chapter 11.

Indeed, it may be this very prophesying by the Corinthian women that was getting under the skin of the Cephite disciples, causing the stir that resulted in Paul quoting back to them in verses 33b – 35.

In essence, Paul says, “All may prophesy so that all can learn and be exhorted; the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Now, if this is the case, how is it that some of you men are saying the women cannot prophesy, but that they must remain silent? I am the inspired apostle here, and I never taught you that. If you don’t acknowledge that I am giving you the command of the Lord, then you will not be recognized either!” 

This might blow the minds of "King James only" folks who for some reason feel that those who translated the King James did so perfectly under some Divine inspiration and that no deeper study into the Greek or Hebrew should be done. 

This is an amazing read on the topic and actually tends to line up with the rest of scripture where women play a prominent roll on Jesus's life and the ministry of the apostles.

It will send Baptists in a frenzy who usually arent big on getting into the Greek and Hebrew. Mostly their answer is "we believe in King James only and believe those translators were the most accurate and Spirit led in all the world," rather then go in and have their world rocked by some possible misunderstandings.

It's always amusing to me that Baptists are cool with having a female boss or speak or teach on anything as long as it's not Christianity or the Bible. 

What is a church? Where two or three tsther in my name, there am I in the midst...no honey, I realize we have 6 Christians here and we are discussing the Bible, you make sure you don't teach anyone anything the Lord is showing you, stick to needlework or organic farming. You can teach farming classes to Christian men, but don't mention Jesus or scripture. Is this what Paul meant or did he mean the exaxt opposite of what many fundamentalists have been preaching?